Hi. Game designer here. I’ve seen the metrics. While it’s not just you, there is a sizable number of players who spend…

Hi. Game designer here. I’ve seen the metrics. While it’s not just you, there is a sizable number of players who spend huge amounts of time in character creation. Some will spend more than an hour there. (Thread)

The Critical Drinker@TheCriticalDri2 · Sep 21, 2024

Is it just me or are character creation screens nothing but a stupid, narcissistic waste of time?

Also, in a dialogue-heavy game with a lot of NPCs like a DA or a BG3, you’ll need a wide wealth of options to create a world of options to make your NPCs not feel like pod people copies of each other, so the work is not just about appeasing that portion of the audience.

That said, another large percentage will just slam the default or preset options (especially in slider-heavy CC screens where finding a good look is almost an art). Having good presets is CRUCIAL for those players who just want to get into the game.

And yes, many people will try to make themselves, and many people are delighted that they can. It makes them feel seen, which is more impactful in video games where they typically don’t have representation.

(As a side note, white men usually don’t understand the value and power of representation in games - or movies or comics or tv - because they’ve always had plenty of it. Seeing someone like you hits a lot harder if you’re a woman, or black, or gay, or have vitiligo).

The tendency to try to make yourself also results in generic white guys being chosen but that’s mostly a function of white guys being the largest demographic for gaming, even though that is changing as gaming becomes more widespread and international.

Lastly, a lot of people who like to see themselves in the game may not choose to PLAY themselves - i.e. they’ll then go create something else. They may choose an idealized version of themselves, or something that’s a complete 180.

And yes, gender bending is often part of the deal. This may be partly for thrill or curiosity. Sometimes it’s just better character art. Women often play men to hide their identities in games with multiplayer to avoid getting hit on.

But mostly it’s just about roleplaying. You know, that thing that’s in the name of the genre? People want to create a character and decide how that character would react to the situations a game throws at it. Part of the fun is choosing a character you think is interesting.

That character may look like the player themselves. It may be a transgender vampire queen. It may be the derpiest mutant the character creator lets you make for the lols. But yes, lots of people love a good character creator, and they are often the genre’s biggest fans.

Last but not least, if you don’t like certain character creation options, one great thing you can try is NOT CHOOSING THEM.

(Follow me, you cowards)

Actually, the thread nor the tweet I was responding to discussed this specific example. That said, scars in this general area are, in the United States, far more likely to be on cis people (mastectomies for example) than trans.

See Tycho's thoughts on the subject. People turning this into a culture war thing are basically just telling on themselves, all for an option that is utterly skippable.

Tycho Brahe@TychoBrahe · Sep 20, 2024

Let me be real for a second. I'm watching this Dragon Age discourse, and it's like... I know women who have "top surgery scars" because they had fucking cancer. Cancer. Okay? These women are in my family. They have "top surgery scars" because the alternative is dying of cancer.

You aren't alone! And this is more likely to be true in games with smooth sliders between options rather than hard presets, because finding good looks is a lot trickier. Heavy CC screens are less noob friendly. Game dev is always all trade-offs.

Flomatic@BrainOnRepeat · Sep 23, 2024

I can't stand minutia slider character creators. They're so tedious and unsatisfying. I'd much rather play as a character that was created specifically for the story than some build-a-bear monstrosity with a swappable voice.

Bioware made Shep and FemShep just for people like you! (It wasn't just for that, it also gave them an appearance that marketing could use as the face of the game. And a LOT of people chose 'em.) x.com/Andy2r5/status…

Sometimes companies are kind enough to release data! (I should have thought to search for these infographics, which I knew were out there). Link goes to infographic on early BG3 character creation choices. fullcleared.com/news/baldurs-g…

Resetium@resetium_ · Sep 23, 2024

@BenPielstick @ZenOfDesign we gotta get a bell curve of "proportion of people by how likely they are to pick human or non-human characters"

For those too lazy to click the link...

So sorry that an absolutely 100% irrefutably true statement that helps explain the decision-making process that game designers use when deciding these things bothers you.

Dex Galabinov@dexGalabinov · Sep 23, 2024

@ZenOfDesign Would have been a great thread, but then this part had to come

I am down with game devs making games that help them reach the broadest possible audience for their vision. Classic RPGs, as a genre, are unusually popular in particular with women and the LGBTQ community, so providing those options makes sense.

Thunda@Thunda818 · Sep 23, 2024

@ZenOfDesign Are you the one making these games gay and lame of these se metrics lmao? You down with the tit scars and bulges?

(Unshockingly, I have heard a lot of anecdata that a lot of trans gamers really like character customization in heavy RPGs specifically BECAUSE it allows them to experiment with different identities and personas).

LOL, I've been doing this a while. x.com/stratadem/stat…

The JIRA bug database for a game with robust character creation is a non-stop chest of eldritch horrors as the team tests the limits of the system.

Nidohime@nidohime · Sep 23, 2024

@ZenOfDesign Also never underestimate people when they get the power of creating the ugliest character out of Cthulhu's toilet, because that's another delight of character creation.

For what it's worth, the most paralyzing thing in character creation is the perception that the choices you make are permanent. Usually (but not always) this is about GAMEPLAY choices like player class, which players feel unqualified to make.

Nidohime@nidohime · Sep 23, 2024

@burstmacro_ssl @ZenOfDesign I think one way to mend that is making a character creator that goes little by little. For example you start with the body, and once you are 10 minutes in your playthrought you are asked what job class you want for the character and so on.

In many cases, these choices AREN'T permanent, but players don't really have any visibility on that at the time, so they think that any visual changes they make they'll be stuck with for 60 hours.

My favorite part of this thread are all people responding to 'over an hour' with basically this gif.

jo 🥊🐇@nyasmodei · Sep 23, 2024

more than an hour??????????? I've spent 5–6 hours on TS4 making my OCs with as much love and care possible

While I do not want to speak for differently-abled gamers broadly, as every one has unique opinions and journeys to face, my experience is some want to play these options and some really don't, but even most of those still love to see the representation.

boopboop@Boopboopbeep81 · Sep 23, 2024

@andrei_petrenko @ZenOfDesign Tbh having a guy on a wheelchair with a boomstick and a hook hand is kinda cool. Honestly I'm not disabled so I have no clue if disabled people, like people paralyzed from the waist down, care about representing themselves as they are.

Anyway, the idea that disabilities aren't in our oldest stories is wrong. Pirates have always had peglegs. Hephaestus was 'born lame', which has always had different interpretations. The Norse god Tyr's hand was bitten off by Fenris. So on and so forth.

It won't be 90% but it will be the leading option. The reason is simple math. All the creative people who love char creation will spread their 'votes' across hundreds of different options. All the 'get in the game fast' people will choose the same one.

LearningTheLaw ✝️@Mangalawyer · Sep 23, 2024

Dragon Age: The Veilguard: We invested half our budget into diverse character customization—featuring Black, Asian, and various hairstyles, including vitiligo and underrepresented skin tones. It took 10 years! 6 months later: 90% of players pick the Warrior (white straight man)

I can't speak to DA:tV but it's standard in most non-romance-first dialog games to have an early conversation node where you basically can say 'not interested' and never get flirted with again. x.com/WhatIsUrFavSon…

In recent years, they've had to be made more mechanically obvious that this is what's happening because... some people are too dumb to realize that they're being flirted with! So they end up turning off the romance story with no way to turn it back on.